{"id":19273,"date":"2019-07-09T17:20:13","date_gmt":"2019-07-09T22:20:13","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/feminem.org\/?p=19273"},"modified":"2019-07-09T17:20:15","modified_gmt":"2019-07-09T22:20:15","slug":"awaem-anniversary-interviews-10-years-of-progress-dr-kinjal-sethuraman","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/feminem.org\/2019\/07\/09\/awaem-anniversary-interviews-10-years-of-progress-dr-kinjal-sethuraman\/","title":{"rendered":"AWAEM Anniversary Interviews: 10 Years of Progress \u2013 Dr. Kinjal Sethuraman"},"content":{"rendered":"\n

We\u2019re speaking today with Dr. Kinjal Sethuraman<\/a> who is Assistant Director of Hyperbaric Medicine at the\nUniversity of Maryland and Past President of AWAEM from 2017-2018. She speaks\nabout how AWAEM has been her \u201clife vest,\u201d and how being a part of AWAEM\nhas influenced how she writes, negotiates, and how often she thinks about what\nother people think of her, which happens to be very little\u2014 and also makes\nher my hero.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Tell us a little bit\nabout how you spend your time. <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              My job is 75% hyperbaric medicine\nand then 25% emergency medicine. I also interview for the med school, I\ninterview for the MD program, and the rest of my time is surrounded with\nanything and everything related to my kids.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Great. What initially\nmotivated your involvement with AWAEM?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              I know we always remember that\nmoment when you know that this is something that’s going to be a part of your\nlife for a really long time. I was in Seoul, South Korea, living there for\nabout a year and Esther Choo came to visit and she was talking about this \u201cwomen\nin medicine\u201d organization. We had talked about women in medicine issues as\nresidents together and so she said, “Kinjal this is perfect for you. This\nis where you need to be.” So, I came back into academics because I wanted\nto be part of a larger community, but then joined AWAEM pretty much in the\nfirst few years, that it started. I became Awards Chair initially, right out of\nthe gate. I was hooked. I found my people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Why AWAEM as opposed\nto any other women focused group?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              Because it was specifically for\nacademic women. It also had a lot of very successful women that were starting\nit and I thought that was a great place to start. Not just a few friends that\nwere getting together. Their mission statement and everything that surrounded\nit seemed like it was going to be successful because it was started by very\nsuccessful people.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           And how has AWAEM\naffected your career since then?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              For me it’s really been my life\nvest. When I start to get, feel like, you know the clinical work is getting too\nstressful or the publications are getting rejected or any low time I just look\nto all the great things that AWAEM does and how I can be a part of a much\nbigger community. That really keeps me going and keeps me interested.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Can you point to any\nspecific AWAEM initiatives and projects that might have had the greatest impact\non your career?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              On my career I would say the real\npush to publishing. I admittedly am not the best writer and I think because of\nAWAEM I’ve gained confidence in my writing skills. A lot of my publications\nhave come out of collaborations with different members of AWAEM and different\nmembers of our research committees and learning from them and realizing that,\nyou know what, I’m actually not a bad writer. You see how other people organize\ntheir work, how they organize their writing you see that they fail, and they\nfigure it out. So, then you can fail, and you can figure it out and it\nvalidates everything that you’re good at and it validates that you can rise above\nany setback or failure.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           So how did you go\nfrom there to being president? What impacted your desire for a leadership role\nin AWAEM?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              Most of it was I had been a part\nof AWAEM for a really long time and I saw it was something I really believed\nin. I’m a big proponent of a sense of community, a sense of camaraderie. I just\nwanted to keep that momentum going. I started out as Awards Chair; I did that\nfor a couple of years. Then I mentored other people in the Awards Chair\nposition. At that time, we had this Member at Large position which was kind of\nill defined. From there I became Secretary or maybe I was Secretary first. I\ndon’t know what order. At some point I was like you know what I’m just going to\ntry to be President. It just seemed like the natural next step.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           You mentioned that\nyou started out on the Awards Committee. Tell me a little bit about that and\nwhy it’s important for women in Academic Emergency Medicine.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              It\u2019s no secret that more men get\nawards that are impactful for their promotional packages and for their own\nvalidation. When we looked at the data of woman receiving some of the top-notch\nawards in Emergency Medicine, whether it\u2019s through SAEM or ACEP, it was almost\nall men except maybe for some of the Educational Awards. We wanted to have a\nspace where we recognized impactful woman. That’s where Awards came in. We\nstarted out with just 3 or maybe 4. From there we moved it and now we have a\nlot of awards. It’s this whole beast of its own and the Awards program has\nreally taken off. This way we can recognize people that would otherwise be over\nshadowed by or might be over looked because of unconscious bias in the\nselection process of other national awards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           When did you first\nperceive gender inequality to be a problem in your career?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              In my career? Gender inequality? I\nwent to an all-girls high school. I didn’t think of gender as being a thing\nbecause I went to an all-girls high school. It was a really good space for me,\nlooking back I hated it while I was there, but looking back I thought it was a\nreally good space for me. It was like being a president of everything and\nanything was a girl. It was never a question. I got to college and I found for myself\nbasically men lead in every leadership position. There was one guy as a\nfreshman he was like, “I thought you was a senior because you’re so\nconfident.” I was like I better tone that down. I remember that\nconversation I remember exactly where it happened, I remember exactly how it\nimpacted me in terms of my own confidence and self-worth. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              As far as medicine as a career, it\u2019s\nnever not been there. For me in a lot of respects, I just thought that was\nnormal. I remember times when a surgical chief resident, a female, made a\ncomment when I was a third-year medical student that all woman should wear\nmakeup and look their best when they are working. This was a surgical chief\nresident female that said that to me! I was like \u201cI don’t even know how to put\non makeup.\u201d I don’t know that stuff. I just thought that was a very sexist bias\nthing for a woman to say to another woman and very degrading. I remember other\ntimes when I would use a pen that was a different color. It was pink or\nsomething like that. A male attending would say something like “Oh yeah,\nthere are only certain types of people that use pink pens.” Things like\nthat but they were subtle, they have obviously stuck in my mind for a really\nlong time. A lot of that has been erased because of AWAEM, there was a lot of\nreworking of my wiring because of AWAEM. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Can you be a little\nbit more specific about how AWAEM has helped rewire that for you?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              Hearing stories of other woman\nthat had the same exact experiences, but they didn’t take it. They were like,\n“Oh yeah, that happened to me and I just stood up for myself. I spoke up\nand I talked back, I wasn’t the nice girl. I broke those barriers because I was\nwilling to take risks.” Taking those risks takes a lot of guts and really\nfacing those fears of someone saying she’s difficult. Being surrounded by women\nthat were just like me made it okay to be me. If that makes sense.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           How has AWAEM\nimpacted your career perhaps in terms of gender equity and pay or promotions?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              Now whenever I go in to meet with\nmy boss, because of the didactics that AWAEM has done at SAEM and negotiation\ndidactics and talking to woman that are chairs that are willing to share their\nsecrets, whenever I go into to talk to my chair or any boss, really any\nsituation where I know I’m going to have to negotiate something, I go in with\ndata. I learned that because of AWAEM. I learned that because I went to those\nsessions and I was really paying attention. I go in with data about how much\nI’ve done, what I bring to the table, it’s not like, \u201cHey, I need to buy a\nbigger house. Or, hey, I’m having another kid.\u201d It was like, \u201cNo, this is what\nI bring to the table, this is my ask. Tell me what I can get to get there to\nget that ask.\u201d Having a stronger voice because of bringing into things that the\nchair cares about that was a huge lesson that I learned. It\u2019s not just about me\u2014it\u2019s\nwhat I can do for them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Can you describe in\nyour own experience how leadership in an organization like AWAEM might be\nconsidered for example for academic advancement?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              It’s a huge national organization\nat this point. It’s the largest academy in SAEM. Under my watch we had 250\nmembers give or take. That is not a small number to manage. We have an\norganizational structure that is large and complex. Managing all those people\nwho are effectively, if you were looking at a job in business, they would be\ndirect reports. Looking at from a point of view of running a company or running\nan organization that is a pretty big deal. That skill set of leadership is\nsomething that you don’t have necessarily have the opportunity to get if you\nwere not part of an organization like AWAEM. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           How have you\nperceived a leadership role in a woman focused professional organization has\nbeen perceived relative to a leadership role in any other type of national\norganization?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              By people at work or in general?<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Anyone.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              I don’t know. I don’t think about\nwhat other people think as much as I used to. That’s because of AWAEM. I know\nthat I have a lot of pride in my work through this very large complex and\nproductive organization and I’m very proud of that. So, if anyone says, “Hey\nyou know what it\u2019s just a woman’s group or hey what do you do? Do you just go\nto dinners or something?” I answer by saying exactly what I’m saying here.\nI explain these are our accomplishments. I led an organization that was 250\npeople, its triple the size of our faculty. I’m very proud of that and it\ndoesn’t matter that it is a woman’s organization or not. These are woman that,\neach one has their light, we try to amplify every single person that’s part of\nour group.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           How have you seen\nAWAEM change?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              Over the years, I have been a part\nof it for 8 years now, it was smaller more intimate, when I first got there. At\nthe organizational structure, it has ballooned, we have multiple Vice\nPresidents now that we did not have before. We have the Executive Council\nthat’s very large all by itself. Then we have lots and lots of people on the\ncommittees. Everyone wants to be involved. I think that because it is such a\nhuge group you do need that organizational structure and you do need to create\nopportunities for people to take on leadership and take on a project. It\u2019s\ngotten bigger and better and more complex. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           How do you anticipate\nthe needs of woman in Academic Emergency Medicine might befall in the next 10\nyears? And how AWAEM might meet those needs better. <\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              In the next 10 years? I think in\nthe next 10 years what we are going to find is more and more woman going up. I\nthink in the next 10 years what we\u2019re going to see is we are at a point where\nit is cool to be a woman in medicine. Where its programs are specifically made\nfor women in medicine and I think that, in itself, speaks volumes about where\nwe are going to be in 10 years. We are going to continue to take risks, take on\nleadership, and tell our stories of how we got there. You are going to see a lot\nmore woman that are going for traditionally competitive male positions. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              If you look at papers that have\nbeen published from the mid 90’s to the early 2000’s it\u2019s like \u201crinse, repeat.\u201d\nSome of these papers that were written about gender inequities in medicine,\nthey are saying the same thing that we are saying. We are just like \u201crinse,\nrepeat,\u201d it\u2019s a broken record. I’m really tired of this record, hopefully in\nthe next 10 years we’ll look back and say, \u201cYou know what things have changed.\nThings have really changed.\u201d There was a paper that I was reading just the\nother day, it was published in 2001, its exactly the same stuff we are talking\nabout now. Nothing has changed, the needle has not moved and hopefully in 10\nyears because of organizations like AWAEM, because of things like the\nconferences for women, we will not be sitting there rehashing the same research\nquestions again.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           I hope you’re right.\nWe are going to pivot a little bit more towards you personally. What career\naccomplishment would you say you are the most proud of?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              Career accomplishment that I’m\nmost proud of? I think just getting through med school and matching in\nEmergency Medicine. It\u2019s so basic for me. It\u2019s just being where I am right now.\nIt\u2019s not after residency, it\u2019s just getting through it. <\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           That is an\naccomplishment. Absolutely. What piece of advice might you give a younger\nversion of yourself or an AWAEM member at an earlier stage of her career that\nperhaps you didn’t know?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              Honestly, I would say go to\nnational meetings and join groups like AWAEM. Find your people, find your raft.\nIf AWAEM existed when I was a resident, I think my career trajectory would’ve\nbeen a little bit less choppy. I would’ve taken turns at different places and I\nwould’ve had this network of automatic mentors. Rather than trying to seek out\npeople, I would just have a network and it would be easy.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Please name three\nother AWAEM members we should consider interviewing. One perhaps around your\ncareer stage, one whose more junior and one whose more senior.<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              Okay. I’ve been thinking about\nthis. More junior I would say interview Sarah Gibbs at the University of\nMaryland. Can I give you more? Danya Khoujah also at University of Maryland.\nThose people are a few years behind me. At my stage, let me think about this\none, I don’t know if they’re AWAEM members. Everyone I know is an AWAEM member.\nI’ll come back to that one. More senior would be Tracy Sanson, who’s here by\nthe way. Tracy Sanson is a good one. Jill Baren is a good one. Angela Mills.\nThere are many, many people above us. At my level I’m in the same cohort as\nDara and Esther, I would interview Dara. Aisha Liferidge I think she is sort of\nat my level. Ava Pierce who’s at UT. She is the immediate past president of ADIEM.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

M Lin:                           Terrific suggestions.\nAnything else I didn’t ask about AWAEM or about women in Emergency Medicine\nthat you would like to share?<\/em><\/p>\n\n\n\n

K Sethuraman:              The one unique thing about women\nin Emergency Medicine in particular is that we tend to collaborate. Honestly\nthe culture of AWAEM is collaborative, people who are in it for themselves\ndon’t last very long in AWAEM because they are slowed down. A collaborative\nprocess is slower than if you were to just pummel through something by\nyourself, depending on what that is. The reason why I have kept on with AWAEM\nand probably will for my entire career is the fact that it is so collaborative.\nHopefully no one feels that they’re left out or not invited. I feel like we\nmake an effort to be inclusive.<\/p>\n\n\n\n

Listen to the complete podcast here<\/a>.<\/em><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

We\u2019re speaking today with Dr. Kinjal Sethuraman who is Assistant Director of Hyperbaric Medicine at the University of Maryland and Past President of AWAEM from 2017-2018. 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